The Khatovar-Pitax War (the Kelis conundrum)

Leonis wrote:

Yes. Do a scry. Then do send. Then go to sleep with a dream.

Okay. You have to be awake when you do the dream, actually (the recipient needs to be asleep). I presume that's for Tyman.

Who do you try to scry the first day and who do you do the sending to?

You know I'm thinking Irovetti is making it too easy for Kelis to escape. IE. he wants her to do so for some reason.

The $64,000 question is why of course. Might have something to do with the spells on her.

I think one is 4-6th lvl IIRC and that would cover Dominate person or possibly Geas/Quest. But I think you have to know what the Geas is. Dominate person is unclear as to how obvious it is to the character that they are dominated, unless control is being exercised. So he could have "Manchurian Candidate-d" her potentially and might use her as part of a trap.

Nameless wrote:

You know I'm thinking Irovetti is making it too easy for Kelis to escape. IE. he wants her to do so for some reason.

The $64,000 question is why of course. Might have something to do with the spells on her.

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I think one is 4-6th lvl IIRC and that would cover Dominate person or possibly Geas/Quest.

Yup. I'd posted on the previous page that when she checks the morning after the Amina rescue attempt, she finds three spells on her, one of moderate (4-6th) power and two minor (1-3rd). Which is two more spells than she had on her after she used her cleanses the day before.

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But I think you have to know what the Geas is. Dominate person is unclear as to how obvious it is to the character that they are dominated, unless control is being exercised. So he could have "Manchurian Candidate-d" her potentially and might use her as part of a trap.

I'd say that you have to know what sort of Geas is on you (after all, you need to try and carry it out constantly, plus it's language dependent). For Dominate Person, I'd say that you can possibly not know that you are affected by it, as long as the person who used it on you doesn't make any use of the spell (to communicate with you telepathically or order you to do something).

Was Kelis able to tell the school/type of the moderate strength aura?

Nameless wrote:

Was Kelis able to tell the school/type of the moderate strength aura?

Yes. All three were enchantment.

Admin wrote:

Leonis wrote:

Yes. Do a scry. Then do send. Then go to sleep with a dream.

Okay. You have to be awake when you do the dream, actually (the recipient needs to be asleep). I presume that's for Tyman.

Who do you try to scry the first day and who do you do the sending to?

The nymph. if she detects the scry can I make the "eye" jump up and down and circle around?

@Scott - I think Geas requires the player to willingly agree to the enchantment. Being charmed would violate that willingness. Not many people are OK with any kind of geas, not even pure allies. If you describe the auras to Leonis maybe he can help figure out what the spells are

Leonis wrote:

The nymph. if she detects the scry can I make the "eye" jump up and down and circle around?

The scrying sensor can't be moved by the caster once it appears. It moves of its own accord (if the spell works) if the person being scried moves, following them at a speed of up to 150 feet.

One thing you might have forgotten about Athalia (the nymph) is that you have a lock of her hair, which helps dramatically in scrying her. The PCs got it when they fought the spriggans raiding your kingdom, who had evidently been sent by her, with the leader having a lock of her hair.

Anyway, Leonis' attempt works. He sees Athalia sitting cross-legged, leaning forward a little to place her hands on the ground before her. Unlike the previous time he met her (during the tournament), she is naked and her hair is uncombed. The scrying sensor reveals only 10 feet in each direction around her, and from what he can see it looks like she's in a forest or a particularly overgrown garden. It's quiet where she is, but there are faint sounds in the distance which make Leonis think this is somewhere populated. According to your spies, Athalia often spends considerable periods of time away from Pitax City and also in a large park in the city, so it's possibly one of those two, likely the latter.

Athalia clearly notices the sensor, since she turns to look at it when it appears, leaning close to peer at it. She then casts a spell, which Leonis recognizes as a dispel, but doesn't manage to affect the sensor. She frowns slightly and then visibly shrugs. Ignoring the sensor, she leans forward and again places her hands on the grass, closing her eyes and beginning to murmur something. Leonis thinks she's singing very softly.

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@Scott - I think Geas requires the player to willingly agree to the enchantment. Being charmed would violate that willingness. Not many people are OK with any kind of geas, not even pure allies.

No, Geas doesn't require agreement, which is why Lesser Geas allows a Will save to resist. Geas doesn't have a save because it's more powerful, but it does have a 10 minute casting time, so it's difficult to cast on an unwilling target. Charming someone might help, but most people who understand what's being cast will not want a Geas put on them by even a close friend.

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If you describe the auras to Leonis maybe he can help figure out what the spells are.

For that I'd say Leonis has to see the auras himself.

Admin wrote:

Athalia clearly notices the sensor, since she turns to look at it when it appears, leaning close to peer at it. She then casts a spell, which Leonis recognizes as a dispel, but doesn't manage to affect the sensor. She frowns slightly and then visibly shrugs. Ignoring the sensor, she leans forward and again places her hands on the grass, closing her eyes and beginning to murmur something. Leonis thinks she's singing very softly.

Leonis will watch until the spell expires. If she attempts to cast spells Leonis would like to do a spellcraft check (you can roll if needed) and if it is something bad (or at least bad for him) he will cancel the spell immediately.

OOC: Wonder if I should give her a sending "So, whatcha doing?"

Admin wrote:

No, Geas doesn't require agreement, which is why Lesser Geas allows a Will save to resist. Geas doesn't have a save because it's more powerful, but it does have a 10 minute casting time, so it's difficult to cast on an unwilling target. Charming someone might help, but most people who understand what's being cast will not want a Geas put on them by even a close friend.

Wow...they beefed it up. Good to know the next time we capture an enemy.

Admin wrote:

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If you describe the auras to Leonis maybe he can help figure out what the spells are.

For that I'd say Leonis has to see the auras himself.

NP. It was worth a try

Well there's almost no enchantment spells in the SC lvs 4-6. It could be something funky from one of the other sources, but who knows what that could be.

So it's a pretty safe bet that it's Dominate Person. None of the other PHB spells really make much sense or have the duration to last more than a couple of hours at most.

So we need to take that into account. OTOH, we can use this in the propaganda war. Since Dominate person would let him make her say what ever he wanted, even if he didn't use it to.

Was that on her at the time she made the speach?

Nameless wrote:

Well there's almost no enchantment spells in the SC lvs 4-6. It could be something funky from one of the other sources, but who knows what that could be.

So it's a pretty safe bet that it's Dominate Person. None of the other PHB spells really make much sense or have the duration to last more than a couple of hours at most.

So we need to take that into account. OTOH, we can use this in the propaganda war. Since Dominate person would let him make her say what ever he wanted, even if he didn't use it to.

Was that on her at the time she made the speach?

Didn't have to be on her at the time of the speech. No way we can prove it or they can disprove it. However, some low level wizard/cleric/bard/etc can cast detect magic and see all the auras to confirm she has enchantments. I imagine doing stuff like that doesn't sound too good.

If she is geas'd / dominated we may just need to wait for her to go outside.

What about this plan:
1) We teleport near the area and hide (rope trick)
2) When she goes outside Rowan teleports us around her
3) Leonis has arcane sight up to see if dimensional lock aura is up
4) Leonis does a quicken dispel
5) Leonis does a teleport out
6) If that fails we have Kara with a scroll of wall of force to pop up around us. So it's all of us surrounding Irrovetti. Hell I say Grabthar grabs Irrovetti and we teleport his bitch ass with us.

We time it so Leonis' action is RIGHT after Rowans. If all goes well we are in and out in a second.


Though Irroveti may be hoping for this, hence he lets Kelis out for her walk poop/pee each day.

Nameless wrote:

Well there's almost no enchantment spells in the SC lvs 4-6. It could be something funky from one of the other sources, but who knows what that could be.

So it's a pretty safe bet that it's Dominate Person. None of the other PHB spells really make much sense or have the duration to last more than a couple of hours at most.

So we need to take that into account. OTOH, we can use this in the propaganda war. Since Dominate person would let him make her say what ever he wanted, even if he didn't use it to.

Was that on her at the time she made the speach?

Kelis doesn't know if the Dominate Person was on her when she made the speech, but when she used Cleanse that morning she removed the only 4th-6th level aura on her. If a Dominate Person was on her without her knowledge, she certainly wasn't being affected by it or made to give the speech, since she'd have known. Actually, so would the spectators. It's only a DC 15 Sense Motive check to realize if someone is being affected by a Dominate Person, since you don't act naturally when you are and have a very limited range of activities.

Admin wrote:

OOC: If she decides to use cleanse on them, let me know in which order you go and roll me six caster level checks (tell me how many attempts you make if any fail).

OOC: highest level spell effect to lowest. In case of a tie, you can flip a coin!

Kelis wrote:

OOC: highest level spell effect to lowest. In case of a tie, you can flip a coin!

Works for me. Start rolling.

Admin wrote:

Works for me. Start rolling.

Again? I already rolled a set of caster level checks -- they're on the previous page!

Or is this another set of attempts?

Kelis wrote:

Again? I already rolled a set of caster level checks -- they're on the previous page!

Or is this another set of attempts?

Yes. This is another set of attempts. And here's the reason (includes something I forgot to mention earlier):

When Kelis uses detect magic on herself, she initially doesn't detect any magical auras, and then notices only a minor abjuration aura. A second later, three enchantment auras (two minor, one medium) show up. Despite her comparative lack of magical training, Kelis knows enough to be able to work out what this likely means. Not only has someone cast multiple spells on her, but that includes a nondetection, which can hide magical auras from divination spells. Luckily, Kelis' detect magic was strong enough to get through the masking magic and reveal what was concealed by it.

OOC: So Kelis actually has four spells on her - one minor abjuration (Nondetection), two minor enchantments (one of them presumably a Charm Person) and one medium enchantment. Roll the caster level checks and I'll let you know what you remove (I'll presume you're not trying to remove the Nondetection, since that would actually mask the fact that some spells on you have been removed).

Admin wrote:

OOC: So Kelis actually has four spells on her - one minor abjuration (Nondetection), two minor enchantments (one of them presumably a Charm Person) and one medium enchantment. Roll the caster level checks and I'll let you know what you remove (I'll presume you're not trying to remove the Nondetection, since that would actually mask the fact that some spells on you have been removed).

OOC: aha! OK, highest to lowest, skipping Nondetection: 17, 28, 22

The member 'Kelis' has done the following action : Dice roller

'd20' : 5, 16, 10

Kelis wrote:

OOC: aha! OK, highest to lowest, skipping Nondetection: 17, 28, 22

The middle one succeeds, so after three tries you have one minor aura and one medium aura remaining. Based on how she's feeling, Kelis is reasonably certain she's still charmed

Care to try any more times?

Leonis wrote:

Didn't have to be on her at the time of the speech. No way we can prove it or they can disprove it. However, some low level wizard/cleric/bard/etc can cast detect magic and see all the auras to confirm she has enchantments. I imagine doing stuff like that doesn't sound too good.

If she is geas'd / dominated we may just need to wait for her to go outside.

What about this plan:
1) We teleport near the area and hide (rope trick)
2) When she goes outside Rowan teleports us around her
3) Leonis has arcane sight up to see if dimensional lock aura is up
4) Leonis does a quicken dispel
5) Leonis does a teleport out
6) If that fails we have Kara with a scroll of wall of force to pop up around us. So it's all of us surrounding Irrovetti. Hell I say Grabthar grabs Irrovetti and we teleport his bitch ass with us.

We time it so Leonis' action is RIGHT after Rowans. If all goes well we are in and out in a second.


Though Irroveti may be hoping for this, hence he lets Kelis out for her walk poop/pee each day.

Rowan thinks about it for a moment and then shakes her head. "Sorry, but - no. Teleport into Pitax City and just hang out waiting for Kelis to show up and try all that, hoping we can pull it off in time? That's just asking to get us killed. Especially if we're trying to do this as a group. There are too many of us, we make a lot of noise," she says, studiously not looking at Grabthar, "and so on."

"Plus, if we try to coordinate this with Kelis, Irovetti or someone else is going to find out from her. She's charmed, you said," Rowan says to Leonis, "and who knows what else, considering she's reading out speeches for Irovetti him. She'll not subtle at the best of times. She'll talk. And they might read her mind, too. I would!"

The redheaded arcanist raises a hand to forestall any interruptions and continues, "But I'm not saying we shouldn't try to rescue her. Just don't let Kelis know any details about what we're trying. And just a couple of us should go. Maybe," she glances around the group, "Kara and me. I can disguise myself and not show up to anything short of a true seeing. And I need someone who can swing a weapon to cover me if needed and Grabthar's too big and obvious. Plus," she smiles, "I might need him to create a distraction, and you, Leonis, to get his ass out before he gets killed."

"Quintessa could be useful as well," Rowan continues thoughtfully, and her smile widens as she thinks of something. "Yes, that's what we need. You know what they say - never send a man to do a woman's job." She looks around to see what the others' response is.

OOC: Since I'm NPCing Rowan for the moment, I thought I'd have her weigh in a bit, especially since she has a bunch of abilities (being able to change her form without being detectable by detect magic, lots of enchantment spells and some other utility spells, best social skills in the group) which can be really handy for a rescue.

Admin wrote:

Rowan thinks about it for a moment and then shakes her head. "Sorry, but - no. Teleport into Pitax City and just hang out waiting for Kelis to show up and try all that, hoping we can pull it off in time? That's just asking to get us killed. Especially if we're trying to do this as a group. There are too many of us, we make a lot of noise," she says, studiously not looking at Grabthar, "and so on."

Looking at Rowan as she goes on, "We have ways to make us more subtle, but I never said to Teleport into Pitax City. I said teleport nearby. We hang out in the forest, scout up ahead, and then go in for the proverbial kill.

Admin wrote:

"Plus, if we try to coordinate this with Kelis, Irovetti or someone else is going to find out from her. She's charmed, you said," Rowan says to Leonis, "and who knows what else, considering she's reading out speeches for Irovetti him. She'll not subtle at the best of times. She'll talk. And they might read her mind, too. I would!"

The redheaded arcanist raises a hand to forestall any interruptions and continues, "But I'm not saying we shouldn't try to rescue her. Just don't let Kelis know any details about what we're trying. And just a couple of us should go. Maybe," she glances around the group, "Kara and me. I can disguise myself and not show up to anything short of a true seeing. And I need someone who can swing a weapon to cover me if needed and Grabthar's too big and obvious. Plus," she smiles, "I might need him to create a distraction, and you, Leonis, to get his ass out before he gets killed."

Waiting for Rowan to finish, "My fine red-headed, drunken Vixen. I wouldn't plan anything with Kelis. If anything, we should misdirect her. We know that Irovetti likes to take her for walks, and I am sure those are traps waiting to happen - have you ever heard of Irovetti's top generals in Kelis' description?"

"Your plan of having me and Grabthar go in one area and cause a ruckous, while you and Kara rescue Kelis sounds good to me. A more refined version of my earlier plans of making a distraction - Maybe you are a functional drunk! I can also conjure up some illusion spells so it looks like you and Kara are with me and Grabthar."

Admin wrote:

"Quintessa could be useful as well," Rowan continues thoughtfully, and her smile widens as she thinks of something. "Yes, that's what we need. You know what they say - never send a man to do a woman's job." She looks around to see what the others' response is.

"I agree. Now be a doll and fetch us some food. You know, never send a woman to do a mans job and all"

Admin wrote:

Care to try any more times?

OOC: sure! Irovetti has thoroughly dirtied up her mind. One more - 21.

The member 'Kelis' has done the following action : Dice roller

'd20' : 9

OOC: ... and another! 24.

Also - "She's not subtle at the best of times" is going on Kelis's tombstone.

The member 'Kelis' has done the following action : Dice roller

'd20' : 12

Kelis wrote:

OOC: ... and another! 24.

This succeeds, so now the medium enchantment is gone as well. Unfortunately, though not surprisingly (since Charm Person is a 1st level spell, so it would presumably be the minor enchantment remaining), Kelis feels that she's still charmed. Or is mellowing in her old age and becoming far too appreciative of Irovetti's try at being "nicest captor of the year". Is the going to try and remove the last enchantment? She's out five 5th-level spells at this point, so keep that in mind.

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Also - "She's not subtle at the best of times" is going on Kelis's tombstone.