Dealing with Grigori

Since the question of dealing with Grigori has come up, I'm putting up this separate thread for it. Here are the two posts on the subject thus far:

Gareth wrote:

I do call a small meeting to discuss the naysayer and what we can do to get rid of him. Honestly, at this point I am up for getting rid of him and dealing with a month or two of instability then having to hear him chatter on end and making money off the people

Korm'akhan wrote:

I don't know about that. At the moment he's just rabble-rousing, but if we prove him "right", a reputation for tyranny

We need to start talking about the importance of freedom of speech, and freedom in general. (People must have come out into the wilderness for a reason, just like other explorers and settlers in our past.) We can co-opt some of his message for our own. Make what is implicit explicit - that a demagogue like him would be imprisoned or killed in many kingdoms. But we're a freedom-loving people, so we have no problem with him as long as he is just talking, and not stealing from the people like (what's his name) or planning treason.

Of course, we'll continue to challenge his cowardice and uselessness. He does absolutely nothing but sing pretty songs and make speeches, while the rest of the people in the country do hard work. We're putting our lives on the line, building a city and fighting bandits, while he just flaps his mouth and does nothing.

Rowan is also going to start publicly wondering who he really works for. He obviously has an outside source of money, to live so well here. He's just a silver-tongued city boy who's come here to cause trouble. Rowan's spent enough time around soldiers to be able to speak plainly and directly.

OTOH, I wouldn't be opposed to him dying in a bar fight, or being mauled by a bear.

I want to find some way to cast Charm Person on him, and interrogate him about who he works for. At this point, he's only an annoyance, and it's just as important to find out who's using him to sabotage us.

I think charming him or whatever to get to the bottom of what his true motive might be is the way to go.
We might also try to have someone try to seduce him...

We do have that love potion!

Luna wrote:

I think charming him or whatever to get to the bottom of what his true motive might be is the way to go.
We might also try to have someone try to seduce him...

Luna wrote:

We do have that love potion!

And, just in case that needed mentioning, you do happen to have two lovely young ladies in the group, one of whom has the capability of casting Charm Person.

With the others being busy, the three people who are at the meeting Leonis calls to discuss the 'Grigori situation' are Svetlana, the warforged Akiros, and the halfling Jubilost, who has just come into town with another trade caravan.

Once Leonis, Rowan and Kara have had their say, Svetlana is the first to offer an opinion. "I agree with Rowan that a violent solution is probably a bad one. I'd much rather we not be killing people if we can avoid it. And I'm curious who Grigori is working for as well. Oleg told me that he'd calculated roughly how much money he spends, and though he gets basic room and board at the inn, he's spending a lot more than he makes. Someone must be financing him."

Jubi, perched on a cushion so that she can reach the table too, nods. "Yeah. He's dirty, no doubt, and it's better to make him talk than ...," she makes a cutting motion in front of her throat. "I like the idea of charming the bastard. Or seducing him, maybe using that love potion you mentioned." She chuckles crudely. "If I were twenty years younger ... or two feet taller ...," she winks suggestively.

Akiros, of course, keeps an impassive face through Jubilost's crudities. "I don't have much to suggest," she says, "But if you ever want him arrested and brought here, I can have it done in five minutes. Or," she pauses thoughtfully, "I could say that you need to speak with him urgently and have him brought here, so you can try the charm."

Jubi says, "Why bring him here? He may accept and then complain about being tortured or some crap like that! One or two of you could go talk to him in the inn. I'll bet that he'd be willing to talk privately if you do it right ... if you know what I mean."

"He does also," Svetlana adds, "Take a walk around town in the morning and the evening, though not that often these days, I believe. Thanks to the weather. But if he does, you could accost him at the time."

I think we should meet up with him on one of his walks.... on which he is probably doing survailence of some sort.

Luna wrote:

I think we should meet up with him on one of his walks.... on which he is probably doing survailence of some sort.

Svetlana nods and then asks, "All of you?" Before anyone answers, she adds, "By the way, he always has a few hangers-on with him on the walks, in case it matters."

Unless we are slipping him the love potion... which should probably be done at the Inn or in a private meeting

Luna wrote:

Unless we are slipping him the love potion... which should probably be done at the Inn or in a private meeting

"Perhaps you could meet him during one of his walks," Svetlana suggests, "And try to talk him into going somewhere private to speak to some of you? Even if there are people to see it, there'll be a lot less than at the inn. And then, wherever you go, you could...." she gestures vaguely, "...do whatever you need to."

Coming into the room, "Let's avoid giving him the love potion. That is strong stuff and I believe quite permanent. Who here wants him as a permanent lover? The charm person idea would work, but once he regains his wits then he will spout that we tried to ensorcle him, except in this case he would be correct." When Kara mentions the walks, "When does he go for these walks? How often? Is it on a routine? I may follow him and see if he is meeting with someone. This would provide us some additional information. If nothing comes out of it then we can go for charming him. Does this sound like a plan?"

Gareth wrote:

Coming into the room, "Let's avoid giving him the love potion. That is strong stuff and I believe quite permanent."

Actually, it lasts 1d3 hrs. Leonis would know that, due to his Knowledge (Arcana).

Quote :

When Kara mentions the walks, "When does he go for these walks? How often? Is it on a routine? I may follow him and see if he is meeting with someone. This would provide us some additional information. If nothing comes out of it then we can go for charming him. Does this sound like a plan?"

Svetlana and Akiros have more information about this when Leonis asks. From very shortly after he arrived, Grigori used to go out in the morning and again in the evening every day. There wasn't a fixed schedule, but it would generally be between 10-12 and 4-6. He doesn't seem to meet anyone in particular, just walking around town and talking to people. It seems that he basically uses the time to see what is going on, let people know he's around and spread his opinions around town. From fairly early on, he has tended to be accompanied by at least a couple of the people who are at the inn. Nowadays, with the winter having kicked in, he only goes out once a day, usually in the afternoon.

Akiros (who has been keeping more of an eye on Grigori) adds that there are a man and a woman who came to town 3-4 days after Grigori did, at least one of whom seems to always be around him (and accompany him on the walks). They are called Maris and Thoas and both work at the inn where he's currently staying. Perhaps not so coincidentally, they had got jobs working at the makeshift inn where he was originally staying and shifted to his current inn a day before he moved there.

Akiros also says that she can have a couple of her guards watch the inn and let you know when Grigori leaves, which would mean you could catch up to him within 10-15 minutes of him leaving (since the inn and your castle are close by).

If we're going to charm him... it would have to be Rowan. Oh -- do you ness. know if you've been charmed?

Luna wrote:

If we're going to charm him... it would have to be Rowan.

Rowan to cast it, yes, but more than one of you could speak to him. And Kara and Rowan could, ahem, double-team him.

Quote :

Oh -- do you ness. know if you've been charmed?

If you fail the save, you wouldn't know that you've been charmed, till the spell ends. When the spell ends, you won't necessarily know that you were charmed, but will naturally notice the shift in your feelings towards the person, and depending on how odd your behavior was, might think you were charmed. Someone like Grigori, who evidently does have some spellcasting ability, would almost certainly know he was charmed.

If you make the save, you don't know that someone tried to charm you (unless you see/hear them casting and make the Spellcraft check), but you do feel a hostile force or a tingle that signifies a magical spell was cast at you and failed. The caster also senses that the spell has failed.

"For now let's not involve the guards as they may not have the proper training. I will go and keep an eye on him for a few days and see what happens, I will then keep an eye out on his friends. Once we are done with that recon I think we should try the charm option"

Gareth wrote:

"For now let's not involve the guards as they may not have the proper training. I will go and keep an eye on him for a few days and see what happens, I will then keep an eye out on his friends. Once we are done with that recon I think we should try the charm option"

"It might be more effective to charm the guards than Grigori. They're probably less effective at resisting charm magic." That is, they probably have lower Will saves, and persuading a charmed person to do things he wouldn't normally normally do requires an opposed Charisma check.

"Perhaps Leonis can even stealthily search their rooms while they're out on their walks." Does he know Invisibility? Rowan doesn't, but may learn it at 6th level.

Gareth wrote:

"For now let's not involve the guards as they may not have the proper training. I will go and keep an eye on him for a few days and see what happens, I will then keep an eye out on his friends. Once we are done with that recon I think we should try the charm option"

(OOC: I presume you take the time for the above, so here's the info)

Over the next week, Leonis spends a fair amount of time in some particularly cold and uncomfortable circumstances. The results are somewhat instructive, justifying the discomfort he puts himself through. All that Svetlana and Akiros have said about Grigori's habits turn out to be true. The man does go out daily, not on an absolutely fixed schedule but sometime in the afternoon, walks around town talking to people and seeing what's going on, and returns to the inn. He doesn't seem to have particular people he meets, though he has evidently become friendly with a number of people in town. Evidently this walks give him more material for his rants, since he'll often bring up specific pieces of information based (often only very vaguely) on what he sees and hears.

Leonis also confirms that Maris and Thoas are allies and presumably bodyguards for Grigori. One of them is always among the people Grigori will have with him (which can range from 2-6 at a time), and they take their breaks from work so as to be able to accompany him. Both are employed at the inn, Maris as a bouncer while Thoas is a cook. They appear to be involved with each other, since Thoas (who shares a room with a few of the other workers) usually spends the night in Maris' room (since she has her own room).

Some of the above information is gained not directly by Leonis but via the small network of informants that he finds himself in charge of now that he has taken over Corax's job as Spymaster. One of them also manages to find out some information that Svetlana and Akiros did not have. Grigori apparently does have the cliched enjoyment of wine and women to go with song. He has paid the innkeeper a fair amount to obtain some particularly pricey Aundairan wine, a glass of which he has sent up every night. And is currently sleeping with three different women, one of them a maid at the inn, one a farmer's daughter who visits town regularly, and the third being Lily Tesker, the young widow who hit on Kara and Leonis many months ago at a feast in their honor.

Korm'akhan wrote:

"It might be more effective to charm the guards than Grigori. They're probably less effective at resisting charm magic." That is, they probably have lower Will saves, and persuading a charmed person to do things he wouldn't normally normally do requires an opposed Charisma check.

"Perhaps Leonis can even stealthily search their rooms while they're out on their walks." Does he know Invisibility? Rowan doesn't, but may learn it at 6th level.

Leonis actually doesn't know Invisibility at this point (though he'd be able to get it by spending 190 gp on a scroll and scribing). He does, however, know Alter Self and Detect Thoughts, which might be handy in this area. He also knows Charm Person, but has a much lower chance of controlling people's actions using it than Rowan (excluding the factor of Mike rolling, of course).

Avi (and the others) can chime in on these suggestions.

I'll get invisibility and use that when going in to search the rooms, however, I will also have alter self casted up, detect thoughts running, and charm person at the ready - just in case.

Gareth wrote:

I'll get invisibility and use that when going in to search the rooms, however, I will also have alter self casted up, detect thoughts running, and charm person at the ready - just in case.

Okay. I'll knock another 190 gp off your cash total and add it to your known spells.

Which room are you planning to try to check out? Thoas' (which he shares with a few other employees), Maris' (which is a single room for employees) or Grigori's (which is one of the best single guest rooms)?

First I'll start with Grigori.

Gareth wrote:

First I'll start with Grigori.

Okay. When do you think you'll try to get into his room? When he's outside the inn on one of his walks?

Yes

Gareth wrote:

Yes

Okay. What's your plan for getting to his room? Though Grigori'll be out, there'll be people in the inn, of course. In case it helps, his room is on the second floor of the inn and there's only one staircase leading up to the second floor, located next to the common room (which the main door to the inn enters into). There's also a back door to the inn, which is only used by employees.